Volvo update #6 or something 

"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish) 03/23/2019 at 20:44 • Filed to: Volvo

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I’m at the point where I’m pretty much out of ideas. I replaced the condenser and the points today, and the spark looks no stronger than before. So either that’s as strong as the spark gets, or maybe the starter is drawing so much power that there isn’t much left for sparking? It cranks fairly unevenly, and slower than I feel like it should. That’s my only idea at the moment, that my starter is failing and drawing a ton of power. Where it sits it would be nearly impossible to replace the starter. Not impossible, but extremely unpleasant.

Also, after cranking for 10-15 seconds, some smoke? Starts to come out of the pcv, and now from under the oil cap. Not a ton, but some, and I don’t find that super reassuring.

I don’t want to totally give up yet, but I’m really starting to doubt this thing is gonna be on the road this year, let alone capable of a road trip.

pip bip - choose Corrour > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 20:46

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Starter motor and alternator ok?

Ignition switch ok?

lone_liberal > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 20:49

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If you're positive it's ignition and not carb related, could it have skipped a tooth on the timing chain?

Berang > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 20:52

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Is the spark blue?

You have set the gap and static timing already?

MM54 > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 20:54

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1: Is the dwell set correctly on the new points?

2: Does this have a resistor bypass from the starter to feed a full 12v to the coil when cranking? Not sure if this is an internal or external ballast coil. A possible idea would be to hardwire 12v to the coil (via the resistor if it’s external) to rule out a low-voltage-when-cranking issue. Disconnect the normal feed when doing this so you don’t backfeed the ignition switch.

3: Will it try to start on carb cleaner/brakleen/ether?

gmctavish needs more space > Berang 03/23/2019 at 20:55

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Hard to see, but it looked more white, I don’t think blue. It’s a way smaller spark than I’m expecting, but I don’t really have a baseline of how big the spark should be.

Berang > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 20:59

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The inside of the rotor cap, and the rotor are clean? (clean the rotor with sandpaper) and the sparkplug wires show no cracking or burning?

gmctavish needs more space > MM54 03/23/2019 at 21:00

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1. I gapped the points with a feeler gauge, and it’s correct. I should get a dwell meter though.

2. The old coil had an external resistor, and the new one says “No resistor required” on it, so I have it disconnected. I’m reading 11.7v into the coil and 10.7v out of it. Not sure when cranking though, I should’ve checked that.

3. Don’t know, haven’t tried that. I know the accelerator pump is working, but one of those is worth a try too.

gmctavish needs more space > pip bip - choose Corrour 03/23/2019 at 21:02

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Starter motor sounds tired, alternator I don’t know. It was fine 5 years ago when it was last running.... Ignition switch is working really nicely 

gmctavish needs more space > Berang 03/23/2019 at 21:02

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Yup, and yup

liam > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 21:05

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Did you check/replace your ground?

gmctavish needs more space > lone_liberal 03/23/2019 at 21:07

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I’m banking on the carb being rebuilt correctly, I know it’s jetted correctly for a B20, and the accelerator pump is definitely working.

Not positive it’s ignition, even though the spark looks weak to me, I feel like it should be at least trying to start.

It has timing gears , but it’s possible the fibre/composite/whatever gear h as failed. I haven’t turned the engine over while watching to make sure the rockers are moving, I should do that.

gmctavish needs more space > liam 03/23/2019 at 21:08

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Yeah the ground is surprisingly  good

MM54 > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 21:09

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Setting the gap with feelers is good to get it close but fine-tuning with a dwell meter is the way to go. If they’re gapped even close to right they should be able to start it, though. (Still recommend a dwell/tach)

Were there two wires going to the old coil’s positive post? (Alternatively: how many small wires go to the starter motor/solenoid?) I’d be a little skeptical of the new coil not matching the old one exactly, but as long as the resistor is bypassed and the coil doesn’t need one, it would probably be able to get started. I’d check the voltage at the coil while cranking for fun.

When you say “10. 7v out of it” I assume this is at the negative post with the points open, right? With the points closed, the negative post should be grounded.

gmctavish needs more space > Berang 03/23/2019 at 21:09

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Oh and I’ve set the gap, but I haven’t touched anything timing-wise, the timing was set when it was last running, but as it’s been pointed out, the timing gear could be dead. 

gmctavish needs more space > MM54 03/23/2019 at 21:13

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There were 3 going to the positive. Not sure how many to the starter.

10.7v at the lead to the distributor, I’ll see what I get at the negative post with the points open. I’m really bad at anything electrical, I’m picking up as much as I can as I go here. 

glemon > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 21:17

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Spark is usually not super bright, a good one can be hard to see in the sun, but pretty easy in the shade. I assume this era of car has lots of vacuum hoses, cars don’t like to start if they have a big vacuum leak. I have no idea if that is it, but another thing to check. After you crank it a bit you can pull a plug quickly and check to see if it is getting gas (smell, wet plug) or not (less smell, dry plug).

Berang > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 21:19

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The timing would have changed when you put the new points in, even if gapped correctly, the new rubbing block will cause them to open (sooner) than the points with a worn rubbing block. This is not the cause of the weak spark though.

cbell04 > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 21:49

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Have you tried twisting the distributor left or right while you crank it? Might find the sweet spot in the timing and have some luck. My boat did this to me after a harsh winter one year.

gmctavish needs more space > Berang 03/23/2019 at 22:08

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The old ones had very few miles on them, I don’t think the difference would be very significant. I only changed the points because the set I ordered as a spare looked way better quality than the ones I installed when it was last running. 

gmctavish needs more space > glemon 03/23/2019 at 22:13

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This one is old enough that it only has a hose for the distributor, the brake booster, and from the oil cap to the manifold. There was a hose on the pcv, but that one no longer goes anywhere because I only have the two ports on the manifold, and one on the carb.

Definitely getting fuel to the front cylinder, so I’m assuming the rest are, but I should check to be sure.

gmctavish needs more space > cbell04 03/23/2019 at 22:14

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I have not, that’s also worth a shot

cbell04 > gmctavish needs more space 03/23/2019 at 22:26

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Mark it 1st! Good luck! Oh and my boat motor was a volvo penta bet it had a lot in common honestly

oldmxer > gmctavish needs more space 03/24/2019 at 00:05

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didn’t see previous post, did you replace the coil? the coil amplifies the energy to the plugs, if it’s weak that could be it. 

gmctavish needs more space > oldmxer 03/24/2019 at 02:39

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I did, the old coil was totally dead, had no spark before. 

MM54 > gmctavish needs more space 03/24/2019 at 06:39

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You’re doing well!

The wire which goes from the coil “-” to the distributor should (unless Volvo did anything exceptionally weird) wind up going to one side of the points, and the other side of the points should be grounded. With the points open, you should have voltage at the coil “-”, however when the points are closed there should be very little voltage present here, as this would be grounded via the points. You’ll probably have to turn the engine with a wrench to get it to stop with the points closed to check this, or bump it with the starter approximately 250,000 times and hope it stops with them closed.

If with the points closed there is considerable voltage (like, more than 1-2v) at the coil “-” then your distributor’s/points’ ground connection is bad; I don’t remember if you’ve gone through this part yet but it’s worth checking out for sure. A badly corroded connection could be acting like a big resistor and preventing the coil from charging properly.

I’m not sure what sort of multimeter you’re using, but if it’s got a decently accurate resistance function (basically if it’s a step above “free from harbor freight”) you should be able to check resistance from one ‘pad’ on the points to the coil “-” (should be very close to 0) and from the other pad to ground (should also be very close to 0).